Curse

bam23 · Aug 16, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

I watch cutscenes my first time through. Everyone has a first time, it's not fair to them if you want them to skip because you've already seen them, especially because there is no way to watch a cutscene without doing the mission over.

Ashantara · Aug 16, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Full animated cutscenes would indeed be much better than those generated with the game engine itself. The worst part about it, IMO, is that the characters' mouths don't open and their faces stay dead... it's hilarious to watch (in a sad way).

As for the voice acting: It was much better in "Prophecies" than it was in "Factions" (the clairvoyant woman was just unbearably awful to listen to).

Knightsaber Sith · Aug 16, 2006, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashantara

Full animated cutscenes would indeed be much better than those generated with the game engine itself. The worst part about it, IMO, is that the characters' mouths don't open and their faces stay dead... it's hilarious to watch (in a sad way).

As for the voice acting: It was much better in "Prophecies" than it was in "Factions" (the clairvoyant woman was just unbearably awful to listen to).

I think they use the game engine to render the cutscenes so they can show your party in the cutscene like they always do.

luauelveneno · Aug 16, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

i like the cinematics in game. okay some camera placements are a bit weird sometimes (last mission i think when togo saves his brother) but if u really pay attention to the subtitles u know who is saying what and when. improved is always welcome but people should keep in mind that this game has no monthly fees Anet has to do it with what they sell (profit). I'm almost sure that there will be improvement sooner or later. things like that takes time when you are working on 2 chapters to keep the money coming in.

improvements:
make the camera stands beter
make the actors (read ingame characters) do really something related to the cut-scene, not just let them stand there in a row.
lipsync i dont care about because we have also subtitles.

maybe some sort of skip when a majority of the party skips it just goes on with the game.

i dont know iam just speaking for myself (but it is a opinion

)

majoho · Aug 16, 2006, 07:35 AM // 07:35

I don't have a problem with the cutscenes, sure they could be better but they are ok for me - I'd like to keep track of the storyline and the do just that well enough.

Angel Netherborn · Aug 16, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Just please don't... I can't take it anymore. It's getting embarrasing. I can't sit down and play a game... it actually ruins the experience! How hard can it be to come up with a decent excuse to kill 1 trillion enemies and then justify it with a 50 bucks pricetag?

You mean you actually bought an online game for the story? This is first time I've heard of someone claiming that cutscenes ruin a game that's so full of content...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Seriously Anet - Cut scenes and voice acting is just to bad. We know you're trying but its to horrible for its own good. it does more damage than good.

Fire your entire sound acting team and your cut scene team.

Then hire twice as many CGI animators, and work on making an CGI ending, similiar to Diablo and the warcraft games.

I can't believe that you're actually suggesting to Anet to spend more resources on some animations rather than actual game content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

So Nightfall can start with a CGI cinematic opening, and end with one. I think I speak for everyone when I say that that would be much better, because you guys do amazing cinematics.

No you aren't speaking for everyone. I prefer ingame cinematics than ingame CGI. Would you want to be streaming that much more megabytes? That would cut off ppl with slower connections you know. Connections are not perfect and instant-speed you know, this is the real world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

The in game cut scenes do just not work. its rushed. its horrible. dialouge is bad. the voice acting is the worst I have ever heard. My ears are still bleeding. An online game is just not the right enviorment to make a cohesive final fantasy / metal gear solid style story with cut scenes. It just dont work.

Above, you suggested for single-player-game quality cinematics, now you say cutscenes don't work in an online game? You're contradicting yourself. You started off saying you think the storyline sucks. Yet here you are saying that cutscenes don't work in a story-based campaign in an online game... So you think getting rid of cutscenes and replacing them all with text would make it better? Either you like to read alot or you don't even bother with the story.

Please stop suggesting that things that you do not like be stripped away.

Lawnmower · Aug 16, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

You mean you actually bought an online game for the story? This is first time I've heard of someone claiming that cutscenes ruin a game that's so full of content...

I bought an RPG for the story. As it was advertised...

Quote:

I can't believe that you're actually suggesting to Anet to spend more resources on some animations rather than actual game content.

I never said that. I said I think they should fire the guys that are doing their voice overs and the guys who do theyr cinematics, and use does money on CGI artists.
The current in-game cut scenes are not "content" either. You assume to much I think.

Quote:

No you aren't speaking for everyone. I prefer ingame cinematics than ingame CGI. Would you want to be streaming that much more megabytes? That would cut off ppl with slower connections you know. Connections are not perfect and instant-speed you know, this is the real world.

Much like the current CGI openings, they could be installed from the CD that comes with the game. Further more you know perfectly well, that people could easily skip a cut scene download like that, if they thought the 50-70 MB download would be to much. Also, how often do they make changes to the cinematic? What is there to stream?

The only negative down side of CGI I can tell so far, is actually just that you would not be able to see your individuel characters in the cut scene. Not that I Personally care about being the main hero. I highly enjoyed it, how they did it in Diablo 2.

Quote:

Above, you suggested for single-player-game quality cinematics, now you say cutscenes don't work in an online game? You're contradicting yourself. You started off saying you think the storyline sucks. Yet here you are saying that cutscenes don't work in a story-based campaign in an online game... So you think getting rid of cutscenes and replacing them all with text would make it better? Either you like to read alot or you don't even bother with the story.

No, you're pretty much dead wrong on all ends. I did say, yes, that the current in game rendered cut scenes do not work. What I suggested was using CGI as seen in many single player games. Or perhaps just pre rendered cut scenes, with motion capture or something like that. You should read the thread.

Yes I think removing the cutscenes would improve.

Cut scenes by themselfs take away from the pace of the story. This is why I think its so important to only have good cut scenes or no cut scenes. This is not a movie. If a game, where the only concept is to actually "play" it. The developers have no excuse to take away playtime from the players, if its not absolutely needed. And the cut scenes and story sequences are horrible in GW.

People here blame it on certain things. Some say its pretty much just the voice acting. Some say its factions. Some people say its George Bush. Some say it's the lack of lip synching, and so on.

The point is just that it does not work, so why force people to watch?

If you think about it, in games like Half-Life and Splinter Cell and World of Warcraft and certain modules in NWN does a terrific job of telling the story in completely real time.
As I suggested eariler in this thread, the voice bobbles could contain actual dialouge, for does people who have a problem with reading

Have you ever played Ico or Shadow of the Colossus? Does games are great examples of games that have a very strong story and "lore" element, but which has very little amounts of cut scenes. There is litttle and almost no dialouge, and it's so freakin interesting because the player is constantly guessing, and does cut scenes and voice acting, there do are there, are incredible well directed.

Im not expecting KOTOR or Fahrenheit type story involvment in GW, but as this thread proves the serious majority and most of the most respected review sites absolutely think the GW story is crap.

It's the weakest design aspect of Guild Wars bar none. I don't think anyone with unbiased eyes would deny that. Particuarly if these individuels came from the outside and had never played GW before. Im pretty confident that the first thing that would struck their minds, would be "god this story is lame and cheesy. I better skip this crap".

Maybe people have just gotten fed up with fantasy in generel? Maybe the hole Fantasy-LOTR craze is going down again, but GWs story is just really bad.

Everything from the main characters visual art style, to the way they talk and all the background info on everything. It really does seem like that ArenaNet put this together when they where drunk.

-Lawnmower

Sli Ander · Aug 16, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Hey lawnmower. I'm not trying to flame, so I'll only state this once: please stop comparing an online game to single player games. The graphics requirements, time able to be spent working on cutscenes and animation, etc. are entirely different from an online world where they must be constantly updated.
And in factions they did add more of the ingame bubble talk between npcs. I frankly find that it gets in the way of my killing of monsters. I much prefer the cutscenes that give me a momentary breather to learn the story rather than trying to read what the character is saying in a bubble when I should be focused on healing or killing. Yes the cutscenes could use some work(especially the length of factions ones) and it would be nice if they designed more emotes specifically to make the 'acting' of say...Shiro, more fluid. But they should not be completely removed, imho.

Dagoth Umbra · Aug 16, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Seriously Anet - Cut scenes and voice acting is just "to" bad.
This is not a movie. "If" a game, where the only concept is to actually "play" it.
"Does" games are great examples of games that have a very strong story

Dude, your english sucks. Seriously, is it TOO difficult to actually look at what you are typing, or would that be TOO hard for you? Some of your points are valid, but then so are the points made by others on this thread. The cutscenes did get worse in factions, this due to even poorer voice acting, the rest is tolerable for the reasons others have posted, namely, that cutscenes probably are not as important as other aspects of the game. Then again, some of the quests have interesting dialogue/stories of their own, which makes it all the sadder that the main mode of conveying the storyline is ineffective. Both stories have parts that are good, Factions most of the story is good, that is, the dynamic of the Canthan Empire, the Kurzicks, and the Luxons, combined with a plague, caused by an enemy who changed the landscape centuries earlier, who was driven to do so by a lowly peasant fortune-teller. Prophecies had the Stone Summit vs Deldrimor, and the White Mantle ruling Kryta, and trying to suppress rebels striking from a secret base in a dark and dangerous jungle, although that plot line is kind of old school. Anyways, in this case, balance is good, and both sides have their points (I am referring to page 5, I did not read earlier pages before posting this, I am responding to Lawnmower), it is just that Lawnmower has poor english, even worse than others I have seen. Although I did see one poster who I could barely understand what he was saying because his sentences were so confusing. OH ****, I have become an english instructor, I must go beat myself with a monkey while running around my college campus screaming *I am so NOT L33T!*

"On the frontlines, there is but one commandment... Thou Shalt Kill."

Yayap the Necro · Aug 16, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

yea, cut scenes are extremely boring most of the time, bad voice acting, and the part that annoys me the most....THEY'RE ALL VENTRILIQUISTS!!!! lol they never move their lips when they talk!

Gorebrex · Aug 16, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I bought an RPG for the story. As it was advertised...

I never said that. I said I think they should fire the guys that are doing their voice overs and the guys who do theyr cinematics, and use does money on CGI artists.

And how will the CGI be integrated into the story? In a cut scene(cinematic)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

The current in-game cut scenes are not "content" either. You assume to much I think.

Much like the current CGI openings, they could be installed from the CD that comes with the game. Further more you know perfectly well, that people could easily skip a cut scene download like that, if they thought the 50-70 MB download would be to much. Also, how often do they make changes to the cinematic? What is there to stream?

The only negative down side of CGI I can tell so far, is actually just that you would not be able to see your individuel characters in the cut scene. Not that I Personally care about being the main hero. I highly enjoyed it, how they did it in Diablo 2.

True, no player characters would be in the pre-rendered cutscenes, as there are too many different character appearences to cover all of them(a different cut scene with all possible character combos, in number and appearance).
But you said before you bought GW for the story, but you dont care about your character's part in that story? /confused...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

No, you're pretty much dead wrong on all ends. I did say, yes, that the current in game rendered cut scenes do not work. What I suggested was using CGI as seen in many single player games. Or perhaps just pre rendered cut scenes, with motion capture or something like that. You should read the thread.

Yes I think removing the cutscenes would improve.

Cut scenes by themselfs take away from the pace of the story. This is why I think its so important to only have good cut scenes or no cut scenes. This is not a movie. If a game, where the only concept is to actually "play" it. The developers have no excuse to take away playtime from the players, if its not absolutely needed. And the cut scenes and story sequences are horrible in GW.

No, cutscenes EXPLAIN the story. I think youre getting confused with "get quest, kill stuff, move on, lather, rinse, repeat, till end of game"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

People here blame it on certain things. Some say its pretty much just the voice acting. Some say its factions. Some people say its George Bush. Some say it's the lack of lip synching, and so on.

The point is just that it does not work, so why force people to watch?

If you think about it, in games like Half-Life and Splinter Cell and World of Warcraft and certain modules in NWN does a terrific job of telling the story in completely real time.
As I suggested eariler in this thread, the voice bobbles could contain actual dialouge, for does people who have a problem with reading

All of those are by well-established gaming companies, with a HELL of alot more experience that ANet, as well as much more money. Im guessing, if you went to a film class, you'd say that the students work sucked, for the most part. Anet cant focus on just one thing at a time, or itd take forever to get a game out. (Im guessing you meant those?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Have you ever played Ico or Shadow of the Colossus? Does games are great examples of games that have a very strong story and "lore" element, but which has very little amounts of cut scenes. There is litttle and almost no dialouge, and it's so freakin interesting because the player is constantly guessing, and does cut scenes and voice acting, there do are there, are incredible well directed.

Never even heard of those, probably something with heavy asiatic influence, like Final Fantasy, a style of game I hate to look at as much as you do GW cutscenes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Im not expecting KOTOR or Fahrenheit type story involvment in GW, but as this thread proves the serious majority and most of the most respected review sites absolutely think the GW story is crap.

It's the weakest design aspect of Guild Wars bar none. I don't think anyone with unbiased eyes would deny that. Particuarly if these individuels came from the outside and had never played GW before. Im pretty confident that the first thing that would struck their minds, would be "god this story is lame and cheesy. I better skip this crap".

LOL! Nope, sorry, I started playing GW since January, and though the cutscenes wernt very good, the mouths didnt/dont move, ect, I watched them all, as they help explain the story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Maybe people have just gotten fed up with fantasy in generel? Maybe the hole Fantasy-LOTR craze is going down again, but GWs story is just really bad.

Everything from the main characters visual art style, to the way they talk and all the background info on everything. It really does seem like that ArenaNet put this together when they where drunk.

Then YOU write up a story, or find a friend whos a good writer, and tell them what you want, then try to sell it to a game company, as "Probably the Best RPG Story Ever"
-Lawnmower[/QUOTE]

Mordakai · Aug 16, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

While Lawnmower's language is harsh, I think his basic premise is correct.

As it stands, the cutscenes take more away from my experience of the game, than add to it. Cutscenes should be rare, not in every mission, only during very climatic moments. And they should be better quality, I don't think anyone argues this.

In short, less cutscenes of better quality would make this player very happy.

gamecube187 · Aug 16, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Opinion.

Conjecture.

Assumption.

QFT. Most of what you said, Lawn, is just opinion, or assumption.

I personally like the cutscenes. Ya, some of the voices seem weird at first, and ya, I was suprised that danika had that voice teh first time I heard it, but after getting my 4th or 5th character through that mission, I think that her voice matches her well(even though it might not match the asian theme of factions..).

I hate the little text box things that it gives, so much that 99% of the time, I don't even read it, even if it is a primary quest. I much rather having the cinimatics for the story. If it weren't for them, I probably wouldn't know what the story was at all.

I say keep the cinimatics. They are a big part of adding story to the game. Sure, they might not be the best, but you don't have to watch them. You could just go afk for about 5 minutes, or if you just don't like how it sounds, then just turn off your sound, but please don't make posts like this and try to ruin it for the people that do like the cinimatics.

/110% not signed

Cyprus · Aug 16, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

I agree with lawnmower to an extent.

I think the in game cutscenes are of poor quality and considering the quality of the other parts of the game, they could be much better. In my view, they seriously undermine the story of the game, because not only were the cutscenes (particularly in factions) vague and overblown, much of the time they were just bordering on comical. I thought the Prophecies cutscenes had acceptable cutscenes but Factions, with Danika, the fortune teller, and Togo, just butchered and muddled what could have been a decent storyline.

What really adds to my griping is that Arenanet has shown in cinematics that they can produce some excellent cutscenes yet for whatever reason choose not to include them in the actual game. If it were truly a matter of Anet not being talented enough, it would be different. But leading the community on with those great trailers and then including the junk in Factions is disapointing, to say the least.

Ideally, Arenanet should include CGI and (if done well) I believe it would solve pretty much every problem, but as this likely cannot be done, I would great appreciate at least cutscenes being more encompassing and explaining details in the story more completely.

And we all know Lawnmower has bad spelling and grammar as well as a knack for stating his opinions way too harshly, but honestly, why is it required for every selfless, heroic poster to "expose" lawnmower's personal post as his personal opinion *gasps* and nitpick for grammar/spelling errors?

ducktape · Aug 16, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

I like having cutscenes to tell us the story more than I like having the bubble dialogues, because cutscenes give you a break to watch or skip them, and a lot of the time the bubbles are there expecting you to read them while you're also getting attacked by enemies. That's not a good way to try and read the story details...

I didn't mind the cutscenes in Prophecies, they were ok and only irritated me in a handful of places. I hated a lot of cutscenes in Factions, especially the one with the ghost of Shiro fighting the ghost of Nika - it looked awful because it was only using the standard assassin fighting animations and common emotes, and the "dramatic fight" looked terribly cheesy instead. My only desire is that they try harder to make the characters in the cutscenes move and interact more realistically. I don't expect CGI, but to have someone getting hit with a hammer actually look like they are getting hit by a hammer or have a dying character actually move like they are weakened and dying, that would help a lot.

For everyone who is annoyed by the fact that the characters' mouths don't move, I agree that it is weird, but Alex and Gaile have both explained that since Guild Wars is available in several different languages, they would have to make several different sets of the same cutscene just to make the mouths move properly for each language. That would obviously be really expensive, so they just do not make the mouths move at all instead.

Lawnmower · Aug 16, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Im from Europe. I know thats not a good excuse, but it's not my first language, and im trying to learn it better.

I have problem expressing myself correctly. It's not my intent to disrespect, irritate, generalise or any of does other negative things.

Truth is, despite what other people say... I love this game(s) to death. Yes, I think Factions is a bloddy awesome game. I also like the lore and I like the story for what it is, but I still think that the current voice acting and cut scenes make it seem weaker than it is.

I really normally try to show my full optimistic support to arenanet; http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ferrerid=92302

but this is an area which I just beg to that ArenaNet will improve. But not in my wildest dream I could personally imagine that a game with 1 year in development would be able to get that sort of improvement, and that is why I suggested removing them.

Im sorry. It is not my intent to offend anyone. And again, sorry for bad english!

Claudia Starlight · Aug 16, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

/notsigned

i don't think GuildWars is supposed to be the same with other internet games which requires you to mash your keyboard until you reach level 60.

And if you don't wanna see a cutscene but are unable to skip it because of some *bastards*, why don't you go do anything else? Have a pee break or something like that, or read a book.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that everyone else has to hate it.

EDIT: Although i do agree that Factions storyline feels ... rushed... i do hope that Nightfall's storyline quality will be, say, similar or better than Prophecies.

Align · Aug 16, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

This entire thread is TL;DR.
SUMMARY:
Cutscenes are lacking.

SUGGESTED SOLUTIONS:

Motion capture.
Less cutscenes, more CGI. Presumably shorter clips since they're not near a 1:1 ratio in resources needed to make.
Just improve voice acting.

J3mo · Aug 17, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Yea you're right they suck lol.
The mouths aren't even moving x)

Gorebrex · Aug 17, 2006, 04:56 PM // 16:56

I understand English isnt everyones 1st language, so np there. But you honestly think 1 year in development(I think it was longer, actually) is enough?
There SO much to do with a game, its unreal. You have to create an engie for the game to run on, unless youre using one thats already made, usually under license, which costs alot of money. Then, you need to design the world itselfcreating the different areas, figure out where characters can/cannot go, where to spawn mobs, ect. THEN, you have to get all of it working together, with as few bugs as possible, working on the ones that are there when you can, as the development team is probably starting on ideas for a sequel within 3-6 months after release.